“How can I rejoice in times of troubles? In times of temptations, how can I rejoice? I can do that only because I know that as I have trusted, as I have given my life to Jesus Christ, all things are well with Jesus Christ.”

Alfred Goliath

Program Master of Divinity ('18)
Age 42
Ministering in Lilongwe
Family Wife and five sons

Alfred is a father of five children. When he is not pastoring his church, he takes pleasure in counseling people using God’s Word, as well as farming various types of crops. He asks that we pray for God’s grace to be made sufficient in his weaknesses, just as it was for the apostle Paul.

$100 a month provides a pastor a scholarship to study at CAPA.

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Interview excerpt from September 2016


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Alfred shares about his plans for future ministry after CAPA.

Alfred shares the most important lessons he's learned during his time at CAPA.


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Interview with Alfred Goliath

2017 2016 2015

Q1

Which class have you liked the best during your time here at CAPA and why?

Q2

How has your preaching changed during your time at CAPA?

Q3

What is the most important lesson you have learned from CAPA?

Q4

What do you think has been your biggest challenge while at CAPA?

Q5

In addition to being a pastor, do you have any other duties or responsibilities?

Q6

What are some ways you have seen God’s providence in your life?

Q7

How has the Bible encouraged you lately?

Q8

Do you have any prayer requests?

Q1

What do you like to do during your free time?

Q2

What is one attribute of God that you personally experienced this past year?

Q3

In what ways has God grown you this past year? What has He been teaching you?

Q4

What are you looking forward to this year?

Q5

What wisdom from wise men has benefitted your ministry?

Q6

What is your favorite memory at CAPA?

Q7

What are your friendships at CAPA like?

Q8

What has been your favorite class at CAPA so far and why?

Q9

How has one book you read this past year influenced your thinking and your living?

Q10

What challenges and joys have you faced in ministry this past year?

Q11

What joys have you faced in ministry this past year?

Q12

Have your future plans for ministry changed since we interviewed you last year?

Q13

If you could give a word of encouragement to your fellow Christians in Malawi, what would you say?

Q1

Alfred, are you a pastor right now? How did you decide to become a pastor?

Q2

Can you tell me more about how you were born again?

Q3

In your 20 years in ministry, what are some challenges that you have faced?

Q4

What have you learned from those challenges?

Q5

What are your plans for future ministry?

Q6

How did you decide to join CAPA?

Q7

Now that you have been exploring Scripture and diving into God’s word, do you see spiritual growth in your church?

Q8

What are some ways we can be praying for you?

Q1

Which class have you liked the best during your time here at CAPA and why?

[Biblical counseling] is very important because it helps to understand the Bible clearly, especially being a pastor—you look after the people, eh? And the people, amongst the people, you find the different problems, no? And those problems—I think you need to have full material, how to help the people [with] marriage issues, youth issues. Now, you know, you know, nowadays, there are a lot of things that are going on here in this world—not only in Malawi, but even all over [Africa], all over the world, I can say, you see?

So biblical counseling—it’s like giving help to the people of different problems, but biblically, using the Word of God. So many people, yes, they do workshops, like mobilizing people together—families, the youth—and trying to give counsel. But what I have found out is that most of the counselors are not godly, are not from the Word of God, you see? So that’s one of the subjects which also I have liked it most, yeah—biblical counseling. Yeah, that one is very, very important.

[…] I have already started it, you know—it’s a daily work. Being a pastor, it’s a daily work. Yeah, so I’m here. Some people can call me: “Pastor, this is what I’m facing, what I’m going through.” So it just reminds me—the Lord, yes, I’m ready. Even today, as I leave from this school today, I’m not going straight to my house; I’m going somewhere because there’s a certain guy with marriage issues, so I need to help him, you see? So it’s a daily work. Yeah, it’s a daily work, yeah, sure. Yeah.

Q2

How has your preaching changed during your time at CAPA?

I can say greatly. It has change so greatly. You know, as I’ve already told you, that in the past, I was preaching, you know? Yes. But sometimes, like this issue about what we call […] allegorical preaching. Yeah, many times we just go straight, and we say…

For example, like what Joshua told Rahab, you know? Yeah, when these parties went into Jericho, you know, and they advised him; those three guys, they said, “You put a red cloth, yeah? A red cloth; and when we see that red cloth on your house, we’re not going to destroy that house because we’ll know that all your family households are there, you see.”

So sometimes, we just say, “Okay, that, so let me tell you—that red cloth, what is it? That one is the blood of Jesus.” That is allegorical, yeah, because there’s no Scripture where it says that it’s the blood of Jesus Christ—it’s not the blood. It was red, but it doesn’t mean that it’s blood.

What it means is obedience. Obedience—being obedient. Obedience is what Rahab was asked to do because she obeyed the spies. She obeyed the people who came to spy them out. They—the Israelites—there were guys who were there; they gave her a command. This is what you’re supposed to do . If you do that, you’re not going to be destroyed. Together, with your households, you know? So she obeyed.

So the issue is obedience. Obedience. How much do we obey God’s Word? How much do we obey God? When God tells us to do—when we know that this is what God wants us to do—are we ready? Do we obey God? Sometimes we can obey, but also maybe […] you find that you have obeyed, but not as you were supposed to do.

Just like what this guy—Ananias and Sapphira—what they did, they obeyed. They brought the offering, but their obedience was not complete—was not full—was not a complete obedience. They obeyed, but they kept some. Yeah, and yet they promised that, “We are going to give all that we are going to get after selling our land.”

So that’s how it has maybe [changed] my preaching because, just like today, we have finished with Greek subject, so we are reading about the structure. The structure talks about […] sermon preparation. Sermon—we call it structural analysis. Like those things—so it’s like, we’re at the top. You come up with the timeless truth. So you start from this side, you go this side. Exegesis, exposition, hermeneutics, you know? That one is very important.

So as our professor, Pastor Jim [Ayres], was trying to teach us—[while in the diploma program], we learned about that. But now, it’s like it’s making more sense. […] Now I can see: Don’t just go straight from this to this, eh? First, try to go up, up, up, and find the timeless truth; then, go down. Go down, so that you can come now to—we call it—plural noun proposition.

It’s often more like that; so it’s clear, it’s clear. […] Even the people that I’m ministering, they can testify. I’m not here to boast, but I’m here to glorify God. I’m here to give thanks to God for what CAPA is doing, yeah. Sure.

Q3

What is the most important lesson you have learned from CAPA?

The most important lesson is like […] the more you understand the Scripture clearly, it helps your spiritual growth, huh? Your spiritual growth. Your closeness to God. The more you understand the Scriptures as God has given, without compromising, that helps your spiritual life to come closer, more closer to God. You get the fullness of His character, more and more. And it takes you to become more and more like Jesus Christ, yeah.

So that is very important, and that’s the most important thing. Because we are here, you know… preaching will end. Whatever we’re doing, these things will end. But one thing will remain: That’s my relationship with Jesus Christ, my relationship with God. So that one is very important. And one benefit, as I’m here at CAPA, is, day by day, I’m spiritually growing. Day by day, day by day. In almost every class, there’s—we call it—a Round Table. We just sit down and have maybe a professor just bring one topic, and we started discussing. You know, you find that after that class, your life is completely different; yeah, it’s completely different. Yeah, sure. That’s the most important thing: the growth of my spiritual life. My faith is not the same, yeah sure.

Q4

What do you think has been your biggest challenge while at CAPA?

Ah, you know, the biggest challenge is most of the times…Since I’m a grown-up person, I have a family, I have a church, I have parents, relatives…all those people I need also to take care of them. So that one is a great challenge because at the same time, you have a lot of assignments that are supposed also to finish and submit in due time. So that one has been, is still a challenge, yeah.

So that is why in the Bible, there is a verse that [talks about] perseverance. Yeah, perseverance is most important. Yeah, so I’m still persevering. Yeah, so that’s the challenge as I’m here at CAPA. It’s just amazing that I’ve raised to this level, that I’m here now year three. So to me, it’s a miracle. It’s a miracle. It’s God’s hand; I can call it like that. It’s God’s hand. It’s a great miracle to me. It’s a great testimony—because with the hardships that I’ve gone through, like, I know how to finance my school fees, yeah, because I support myself.

You know, when I finish, now I’m at the church, and my church is not so much bigger. […] But I can’t force members to say, “Please, either you want or not, but this is what you’re supposed to do.” No. I let them do what they can afford, yeah, but to see that sometimes […] we can leave our laptops here just because we fail to pay school fees. That is one of the challenges, because at the same time you have assignments to go and write and type on the computer. And yet you have left your computer here. Just because you fail to pay school fees. So that is another challenge; but you know when you go back home, we kneel, we kneel down before God, and we pray, “Father, if it is Your will that I am there—if it is Your will that I have to be here at CAPA—I trust you, God Almighty, to provide and give my school fees.” Sure. So I’ve seen God be faithful in all of those problems.

Q5

In addition to being a pastor, do you have any other duties or responsibilities?

Oh, at my church, in addition to that, what I do like, apart from being a pastor—I think it’s farming. Yeah, it’s farming; yeah, yeah, I’m a farmer. I like growing maize, yeah, because being a pastor…You know, you must have something you can do in order to sustain you.

So grow maize so that maybe I can have enough food, yeah, enough food to eat. Yeah, sometimes you can have no money to buy food, but you know, the good part is that we have maize. And I can say, okay, you know porridge—you know it? Yes, this time we don't have any [sustenance], but we have porridge. Let us cook porridge and eat and give thanks to God. So I’m a farmer, and I’m looking forward again to continue and growing different crops. So that for example, like cash crops, other crops that can give me money, yes, sure, yeah.

Q6

What are some ways you have seen God’s providence in your life?

Many. Many. Many. God’s providence is like…You know, since I have started, I started ministering long time ago when I was young, and I’ve seen God’s providence. […] There was a time when there were thieves—burglars—came to our house, and they broke our house and they they stole some properties—and God protected our life. You see?

We were spared, yeah, all of us, all of my family members. Yeah, so that is God’s providence. I saw God, yes. God knows everything. He knew that that day, some thieves will come to my house and broke it and maybe rob and robbers some things, some properties, you see? But God has been faithful. I saw God’s hand in that time.

And also, I remember God’s providence is more like the wife God has given me, yeah. I see it as God’s providence, yes, because I didn’t expect that somebody can accept me and say, “Okay, now yes, I agree with you, yes, to go in marriage.” That’s God’s providence; that’s God’s design. That’s what God had made for us. […] I believe this is the book of, is it Ephesians chapter 2? Ephesians chapter 2 verse 10? “We are His workmanship, yes, created in Christ Jesus to do what God has already made for us.” Yeah, sure. So the main areas right now is like God’s providence, I have seen God providing [for me] in a wonderful way. Like right now, I think, I’m living in my own house, yes, which is still under construction, yes. But that’s God’s providence, yeah, sure.

Q7

How has the Bible encouraged you lately?

Do all things without grumbling. Yeah, do all things without grumbling. Yeah. And for example, […] James chapter one verse two. “Count it all joy. Count it all joy.” What is it? You know, count it all joy when you are going through trials. Different trials. Trials of all kinds. You know? So, should I count it all joy? Should I celebrate because I am going through troubles? That’s something that a person can think twice to say, “Ah, I think Christianity is not good, is not good.”

But by grace, you understand what was the original intended purpose to the original author, yeah. So even to now, even to this present how it applies to my life. Yeah, how can I rejoice in times of troubles? In times of temptations, how can I rejoice? I can do that only because I know that as I have trusted, as I have given my life to Jesus Christ, all things are well with Jesus Christ because Jesus has promised He will never leave me or forsake me. He’s always with me. So I need not to complain because of whatever I am going through because Jesus is always faithful to his word. Sure.

Q8

Do you have any prayer requests?

Prayer requests that I can give you…You know, you [referring to interviewer] have seen us, not only me, but many of us, you know; you have seen it. We need God’s hand to continue being upon us, the favors of God to continue being upon us.

Just as Jesus Christ told Paul. When Paul was sick, he prayed to Jesus Christ. He prayed to God three times, and what was the answer? “My grace is sufficient for you.” And Paul, upon realizing that, he changed his attitude, and he said, “Now, since I’ve known this, I will rejoice the more in my sufferings, in my trials.”

So I think that is what myself and other students—I believe we need the grace of God to be sufficient, to sustain us to wherever God is taking us to. That’s our prayer. Pray for us. Continue and go back. Remember Alfred. Remember Alfred. Pray like this: “God, may Your grace be sufficient for Alfred so that one other day, even if we fail to meet on this earth, when we meet in heaven, he must have something greater to testify—that he really experienced your grace in abundance.”

Q1

What do you like to do during your free time?

My free time, of course, I like—what I like to do, it’s like visiting, maybe, some friends. But also like chatting with my family, yeah. My kids, yeah. There are some things that my children like to play with me. Yeah. So when I’m free, I say, “Let’s do this.” Like my last-born likes playing soccer, playing football. He’s young, seven years. But he likes football. Yeah. So sometimes, he can kick a ball to me at a time that I’m busy, that I say, “Please, when I’m free, we’ll do that together.” Sure.

Q2

What is one attribute of God that you personally experienced this past year?

His holiness. Yeah. Holiness. God is holy. This has impacted me in the sense that when you understand that God is holy, it encourages me. It opens my mind, it opens my understanding, that if God is holy according to the Scripture, I need—I must also be holy. That gives me a passion, a desire to give myself to God through prayer and in a kind of activity that can help me to give myself to God. The holiness of God, that challenges me so much--there was a time that I was preaching from the book of Matthew, the Beatitudes, when Jesus Christ was with His disciples on the mountain, and He said, blessed are those who are holy, for they shall see God. So holiness is key. If you want to see God in your life, if you want to see God in your daily life, because we need God. Without God, we can’t do anything. We need God in our side in every activity, in every plan that we plan, we need God.

Q3

In what ways has God grown you this past year? What has He been teaching you?

There are many things, but more like number one: how to live with my wife as a husband. Number one. For example, I know that since I started this school [at CAPA in 2014], starting from the [Advanced] Diploma classes, I learned that I am supposed to live exemplary to my wife, to my family. My wife and my children. And that challenged me so much. There were some areas where I noticed that I was not doing well. Then I said, “Lord, help me.” Because I want to perform my responsibility as a husband biblically.

Q4

What are you looking forward to this year?

I’m looking forward to get more and more training. Because I know that as a pastor, I have a great task to shepherd the flock. It means that if I am blind, straightforward, the sheep also. I and the sheep, we’re all going to fall into the deep. Yeah, sure. So it means that whenever I’m here, I learn more things, new things. Yeah. I feel that there are other new things that I haven’t yet been taught. So I’m sure. I’m looking forward to getting more knowledge so that I can continue being well equipped, so that I can be a blessing, both to God, to the flock, and even to my family. Sure.

Q5

What wisdom from wise men has benefitted your ministry?

Let’s say, for example, as we are interacting from one another here, you know, we are learning a lot. Yeah. Because it’s like when you see how someone is responding, is answering to the lecture, and also when someone is asking maybe some questions, you can learn something: this is the kind of life that I need to imitate, this is the kind of life that I need not to imitate. Yeah, sure. So from wise men, both spiritually, as well as physically. You know, spiritually, I mean how devoted some people are to God’s work, to God, and even to their families. Yeah, sure. So when you are interacting with somebody, you learn a lot. Yeah. His spiritual life, his spiritual position, how he loves the Lord, but even how he manages his family, but also how he manages time.

Q6

What is your favorite memory at CAPA?

My favorite memory. I think I can say there are two. Yeah. There are many, but I must be specific.

Number one is biblical counseling. When we were in [Advanced] Diploma, we had counseling classes. And even now, we are still going on with that. Yeah. It is like introduction to biblical marriage, biblical counseling. Those things. And now that is the first topic, the first lesson that I will never forget, because when we are at Diploma, we are given like some assignments with our president [Jim Ayres]. Yeah. Asking us to take a trip with our wives, out going somewhere, which is a thing I didn’t even dreamed about. But then I said, “How am I going to do that? Where am I going to start?” Just going back and telling my wife, “Let’s go somewhere!” [laughs] “Let’s go!” Exactly. But little by little, you know, I was doing that in a sense of learning, but when I did that, I noticed that it brought something to my wife. Yeah. My wife noticed some changes in me, and I remember there was times that she said that, “Ah! I think this—[taps table]—this is what you are learning from, that you are going.” She noticed! Before I came here, it means that there is not that kind of life in me. So the first thing is this this course of counseling.

This has helped me much, not just me and my family, but the church. Because I am able now to know how to counsel people, with different problems. I am able to know where to start with these people, because most of the time, we lacked knowledge on how can I counsel this person with the issue he has brought to me. Yeah. But with this school now, I can say I have some little knowledge that I am able to help people.

The second one is now, when I’m here, you know, we are learning, like Greek, and yesterday we started Hebrew. Yeah. So this also has really helped me. A thing that I will never forget, we have started a thing like Greek exegesis. And this one is like an eye-opener to me. “Ah! Is it what it means?”

So these two, the counseling and the Greek and Hebrew language, I think I will never forget it, I’m sure that this is God who has brought me here, yeah, to learn at this school. I started ministry a long time ago, and I didn’t go anywhere to get knowledge on how to shepherd the flock, you know? Yeah. So I didn’t expect that today, I would be here doing this school. I started from Diploma, and today I’m here. To me, I’m just seeing God, that God has got a purpose for me, to shepherd his people, but also to shepherd my family. Yeah. Sure.

Q7

What are your friendships at CAPA like?

Friendship. It’s beautiful. Yeah. It’s good. The visiting professors, the visiting lecturers who are coming here, it’s like, they do repeat. So the repetition of their coming here, to me, it’s like when we meet each other, you know, we remember, when you come here, what you taught us. It’s like a reminder—when we just see your faces, it’s just right there, it reminds us that, “Oh! Oh, yes. Now I’ve remembered the topic, what I’ve learned.” So you think, “Is there anything maybe that might be better to go back and refresh myself on that topic?” You see? So I think it’s really encouraging. It’s very strong, we are getting to know the heart from each other. Knowing the heart, not just verses. Sure.

Q8

What has been your favorite class at CAPA so far and why?

Mm… my favorite one, Greek is a favorite class. Why? It’s because it deals with preaching. Yeah. So it’s like it helps you to understand the truth that is in the Word of God. It is very important to me because I’m a pastor. So maybe in the years past, thought I was preaching, I was ministering to people, but it wasn’t as it can be today, eh? It can’t to compare with today.

I am seeing that the learning of Greek, and also this language which we have just started, Hebrew, it can make a great difference in the field of ministry. Yeah. There are a lot, yeah. But this one is greater to me, because it’s like opening my eyes. Yeah. To serve God. Honestly, with all my heart, and faithfully. Sure.

Q9

How has one book you read this past year influenced your thinking and your living?

OK. The books that we have been receiving, they are a lot, it has refreshed my life, and also my living. we received also this book, Sweethearts for — you know this book. [Sweethearts for a Lifetime by Wayne Mack.] It’s a great book, because it speaks about men and women. How can they live fulfilled and fulfilling life towards his or her mate? Sure. So that one, it’s a great book, because it has impacted my life in the sense that I have learned a lot, according to the truth of God’s Word, according to the roles of husbands--oh! Ephesians chapter 5. To me, the roles he explained in that chapter, it’s incredible. Sure.

Q10

What challenges and joys have you faced in ministry this past year?

The challenges, there are many. Yes. And to my understanding, I don’t take them as problems, because according to the Word of God, every field that a person can be has got its own challenges. So the challenges that I faced like the past years, for example, you know, like leadership. When you’re leading people, it’s not quite easy. It’s hard work.

So because there are some other people who doesn’t like being led in the path of truth, , say for example, you are correcting them, you are trying to bring them back to the right way of how to serve the Lord, they become your enemies. They start hating you, and they start speaking other things bad about you in order to destroy you. So in ministry, this is one of the challenges, that since I started serving God, it has been great. It has played a role in my life.

But it’s like on the other hand, those challenges, to me, I’ve also seen that they have a great benefit to my life, because once you are passing through those things, you learn some things, like you get equipped. When you pray to God to ask for His guidance in those problems, yes, you know, you learn a lot. And when you forge ahead, really, you make a difference through those things, just like David stated that, “I thank you that I was in trouble and it make me to learn more about you.”

Q11

What joys have you faced in ministry this past year?

The joys? It’s like number one: Through the sufferings, through the trials that I was going through, the Lord intervened in many areas, in different areas. Finances, sicknesses, and when you are passing through difficulties, and you see God making provisions to you, to me, it’s a great joy.

Q12

Have your future plans for ministry changed since we interviewed you last year?

Yeah. They have changed, my ministry plans have changed a lot, and I’m looking ahead to see more change. Because what I’m learning here is what is building my life. Now, as my life is being well-built, I do also see the very same need. That what God is doing in me, this also must be done in the members, the people that I’m shepherding.

So for example, our church is under construction. Here in Malawi, a self-supporting church—we support ourselves, we raise funds, and we contribute, and we build. So with that, when you are building, it’s like it becomes a great task, and it consumes all other programs. And without you being sensitive, it can even stop you from doing anything, including evangelism, and like any program that the Lord wants us to do. You know?

So little by little, sometimes I do discipling classes. Yeah, sure. And I’m looking ahead […]. And I was telling someone that right now, I’m planning also to just select a few people and to teach them what I’m learning from here. Not the whole congregation, but a few people, because the challenge that I’m facing now is that when I send somebody to preach when I tell them, “Please, can you do the work of ministry? I assign you to preach. I’m your pastor. Please, please.” There is some fear in them, thinking that maybe they can’t do to the level I’m doing. So we just discussing the best way to help the people, and even to help myself to lighten the work is just to choose a few people who are capable to do the work of the ministry to help me preaching, do the work of the ministry.

Q13

If you could give a word of encouragement to your fellow Christians in Malawi, what would you say?

Number one, what I would say concerning to my fellow Malawians who are in ministry, like myself, pastors. I met with somebody, when I told him about what I’m doing, it seemed like something that is not of any help to him. “Why?” It’s because where they are, what they are doing, they feel that they are OK. And everything is alright. They have reached their destiny, and they lacked nothing.

And now, with what I’m doing here, oh! My word to them is, the Bible says, “Blessed are those who are hunger and thirst for righteousness.” It means this hunger and thirst must not stop in us. We need to have more hunger to know God more and more, and also to serve God to the best level, not to our approval, but to God’s approval. So that’s my word, to tell them, wherever they are, whatever they’re doing.

My word to those who are out there is to tell them that they need to be under somebody. They need to be taught, so that in the field where they are, and to best to the glory of God. Sure.

Q1

Alfred, are you a pastor right now? How did you decide to become a pastor?

Yeah I’m a pastor, I’ve been a pastor for almost 18 years within Lilongwe. The name of the church is New Jerusalem Pentecostal Church.

And how did you decide to become a pastor?

Of course, it’s a long story, but just to cut it short maybe I can say… it was 1995, yeah. 1993, ‘94 is when I got born again, you know? And I was fellowshipping with a certain ministry. Yeah, and from there I went to northern part of our country, it’s called Mzuzu, you know?

So, when I was there is when I received this passion, yes, to serve God. Yes. But, you know… it was like, when you have that passion to serve God, it appears like someone is speaking to you, you know? Concerning this work of ministry.

Yeah, so, up until we had a conference, and our senior pastor came, and during the conference, is when my senior pastor confirmed that God has work for me, that I need to serve Him. So then, I went to the Bible school that we had at that time, just to be trained [for] the work of the leadership, the ministry, yeah, sure.

Q2

Can you tell me more about how you were born again?

Okay, yeah, that was in… 1994, yeah, sure. At that time, you know, I was staying with my brother-in-law there at my home village. So while I was there, it was my brother-in-law who preached to me—yes, he testified to me about the goodness of the Lord.

Sure, yes, so now I said, “Ah, but how can I join this family of God?” Then he said, “Now, it’s your decision! If you make a decision to obey what I have told you, simple: just pray. Let’s pray together,” then we prayed. Ah, in fact, from there, when we recited many prayer, then I felt… relief in my heart. I felt peace in my heart.

Ah, actually, before I got born again, I did not involve myself in many evil things, like maybe some other people can witness. Yes, but I think my main problem was like, though I was a young man, but, not that I was a drunkard, but I was drinking beer, not as a drunkard, but because my mother—the business that she was involved was brewing beer.

Yeah, so when I was in primary school, I was also doing that work, assisting my mom, mixing the beer. Yeah, so in the course of doing that it was like me, I was drinking! But, yeah, when I got born again I said, “No, this is not the work that I am supposed to do.” Then also I pushed to my mom, “You know, you need to change. This is not the right business for you, because God is not pleased with this.” So she stopped, then also I told her, “Maybe you can choose another business.”

So, how I got born again, I think just to cut things short, it was like that—my brother-in-law witnessed to me about the coming judgment, and also the grace of the Lord, sure. Then I accepted the Lord as my Lord and Savior.

Q3

In your 20 years in ministry, what are some challenges that you have faced?

The challenges, ah, the main part is like, this is the work of the Lord. So, even the Lord Jesus Christ told us, when we are doing this work which the Lord has left for us, the Bible says: if they persecuted Jesus Christ, they will also persecute us. Yes, you know what? If they denied Jesus Christ, they will also deny us! Yeah, sure.

So, that is the challenge, because when we are doing this work of the ministry, we meet different people. Some people they can pretend like, ah, yes, they love the Lord, they have a passion to work for God, [and] at the end you find that [those] people have brought the problems, like dividing the group, like… enticing, you know? Deceiving other people to follow them, eh? So, that’s the first challenge.

Q4

What have you learned from those challenges?

Sure, I as a minister of the gospel, my work is to serve people. Yeah, so, what I’ve realized is that challenges, helps me… they do prepare me for the coming work ahead of me. Like I’m going to meet some other people, eh? [They] will come to me like “Pastor, this is what I’m going through.” But because myself, I already passed through that, and I know how God encouraged me, how God dealt with me, then I am able to encourage that person!

You know spiritually, I thank [the] Lord that I was persecuted, I suffered. But it helped me to learn Your Word. It helped me to get sharpened, you know? Yes, to know more about You, to know more about the issues of life, how to deal with them, how we can live in a wicked world—but! Keep on pleasing the Lord, keep on serving the Lord faithfully, preaching the Word without compromising.

Q5

What are your plans for future ministry?

By God’s grace, it is me who do not know what will come, eh? After this. But you know my passion for the ministry, or my future plans is that this work of the gospel needs to go, eh? Everywhere. It needs to go far. Especially starting from our country.

So my passion is that I need myself to learn more about the truth of God’s Word, so that what God has taught me, I should also teach other people. That is my passion, to preach to gospel, to continue preaching the gospel, and also preparing other people for the work of the ministry.

So with that has brought in me a passion that, “Why can’t I just start maybe a discipleship class?” Teaching people, preparing people, telling them that I’ve realized that God has pushed something in this ministry that you need to be trained. Not just for the work that is being done here, but also for other people, different places.

That’s my future plan, I want to equip more people, yeah, so that they can go and serve the Lord. Because people cannot come to the Lord if there are not ministers, sure.

Q6

How did you decide to join CAPA?

It has been my heart, it has been my passion—where can I get a school that teaches the word of God? Because there are many institutions, but they are not focusing much on the word. But here, I believe that this is what God is doing. Yeah, sure.

Q7

Now that you have been exploring Scripture and diving into God’s word, do you see spiritual growth in your church?

Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. There was a time I taught about this issue of church discipline. You know, my church had a problem of how to deal with some of the issues that people are doing, you know? Like, when one member sees his brother, that what he is doing is not right, what they used to do is just go to somebody and say, “You know, you know what our brother is doing, you know? Tsk. You know what our sister’s doing, you know?” So it becomes like gossip! It’s like gossip!

So then when I learned this issue of church discipline, then I went to the church! So, from that time I taught this issue, this scripture, I tell you the church is good. Yeah. The church is good. Now they are able, they are able now to meet each other, and help each other, you know, pray together, yes.

You know, before, before it was like us telling people, not like “This is God’s command, this is the word of God, you must obey it.” The people should obey the word of God, but [it was] not like in the sense that they are obeying God, but that they [were] obeying us, eh?

But when you exposit the text to people, it means when the people obeyed God through His word, it means the people will get connected to God. You remain where you are—you never go up and say “I am the one.” No, no, no.

Q8

What are some ways we can be praying for you?

1) You know, the first thing is… pray for me, that God should always, always help me to live holy life. I need to live holy life, because, I am a preacher. I am a pastor. I need to bring a good example to the people. So, that is my passion because the Bible says, “Blessed are the pure in heart, that will seek God.” So, that is my request to God. [That] God [would] always show me the areas I need to amend, the areas I need to change, show me Father, because what I need most is [to] seek God, the day He will come.

2) Number 2 is to pray for me that when I am preaching the gospel, God Himself must speak through me as He opens my eyes to the scriptures. Yeah, yeah, I need to preach the truth. Because nowadays, you know, people are preaching, but not the truth. Men are not preaching from the truth, so it is my prayer, that God make me a minister of the truth.

Yeah, because other things I know, God has already made promises. When I am faithful in doing His work, He will supply all my needs. He will protect me, He will give me water, give me food, everything. I will lack nothing. So there’s no need to say, “This is what I need,” no! What I need is just to be faithful. Seek first His kingdom and righteousness—the other things you are looking for, they will just be added to you. And also God says I am blessed! I’m not poor, I am blessed! So I need to have faith in the word of God.